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Post by gurlnlifemagazine on Sept 6, 2008 20:46:30 GMT -5
And although most people here think 'disarray' is out of her mind for supporting the Republicans she seems to be the only one posting here who has the balls to say that Obama's not perfect. I do sometimes feel like this thread is a campaign thread for Obama. In defense to this, Koen, I would say that us Obama supporters are only pointing out why we support him. Speaking for myself there's no way I think he's prefect at all. I know that and accept that. Both of these candidates have people to answer too because no one gets to the White house with owing somebody something. The only thing that made me vote for him over Hillary was that her list of people to payback will be much bigger than his. I think this thread proves that Obama's impact on voters is stronger than any other candidate's has been because he gets us excited and involved. Obama is amazing for how he's inspired people. Prefect he is not, but that's okay because he's great at what he needs to be great at. If you can move a mountain then move it. He makes Democrats excited about the future of this party and I know I'm proud he's on our side. |
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Post by adhara on Sept 7, 2008 7:13:41 GMT -5
And although most people here think 'disarray' is out of her mind for supporting the Republicans she seems to be the only one posting here who has the balls to say that Obama's not perfect. I do sometimes feel like this thread is a campaign thread for Obama. I actually do wish there was a more balanced debate on this thread, because we learn more from each other that way. I admit to being a "hardcore Democrat", and you are right about us not posting much about Obama's flaws. Speaking for myself, I don't feel comfortable talking about what I think are his flaws because I don't want to sound anymore liberal than this board can tolerate (If I haven't already hit that point)  , like going into stuff about racial politics (i.e. his "blackness" or lack thereof), social class and inequality. On another note, we've been talking so much about character, political strategies, political theater - but we haven't really discussed the issues. Lets talk about the issues too, because that's really where the candidates differ. And maybe it'll sound less like a campaign thread if we start talking about the issues. |
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Post by adhara on Sept 26, 2008 11:16:33 GMT -5
Has this week been crazy, or what?
And regardless of who you intend to vote for, remember to register to vote!
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Post by make.me.over on Sept 26, 2008 12:22:54 GMT -5
Personally I think either hardcore Democrats and hardcore Republicans are way too one-sided. Both parties (& candidates) have their pros and cons in my eyes, and both have sides that would make me feel unsure about them being the leader of my country. I really agree with this statement, and I think it's sad that so many of us end up voting just for the lesser of two evils. I just registered to vote the other day, and this will be my first election that I am old enough to vote in. I had planned on voting for McCain just to avoid Obama, but then I was really upset by his statements about the war taking forever. Recently I've looked at third party candidates, and I'm pretty sure I will be voting for Chuck Baldwin from the Constitution party. I've also become really interested in Ron Paul, and I like how he thinks; really there isn't a whole lot of difference between Obama and McCain. I don't think either of them are going to bring any real change in a positive way. |
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Post by klein on Sept 26, 2008 14:34:48 GMT -5
to me a perfect reason to vote obama would be to rule out any possible chance that this crazy bitch palin will become president.
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Post by gogonutz on Sept 26, 2008 14:41:26 GMT -5
I just don't see how McCain justifies picking her over someone more experienced as his main criticism towards Obama is his lack of experience, other than that I haven't really gotten a feel for Palin at all. She just seems to be running a popularity contest instead of a political race.
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Post by adhara on Sept 26, 2008 15:15:09 GMT -5
to me a perfect reason to vote obama would be to rule out any possible chance that this crazy bitch palin will become president. Well... Palin becoming president doesn't seem to be on McCain's mind. I'm beginning to think that McCain's experience as a POW survivor has given him a sense of immortality. He thinks that because he survived hell, nothing can happen to him. If he did think about the chances of something happening to him, how could he have chosen Sarah Palin to be his VP? He only met her once  What does she know about the economy, foreign policy, education, health policy? I may not agree on many Republican philosophies and ideals, but I can respect differing policy positions based on fundamental differences in beliefs/worldviews. But I can't respect that she doesn't know anything. Or that she makes up stuff to cover up that she doesn't know anything. |
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Post by adhara on Sept 26, 2008 15:28:07 GMT -5
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Post by gurlnlifemagazine on Sept 27, 2008 21:12:16 GMT -5
Personally I think either hardcore Democrats and hardcore Republicans are way too one-sided. Both parties (& candidates) have their pros and cons in my eyes, and both have sides that would make me feel unsure about them being the leader of my country. I really agree with this statement, and I think it's sad that so many of us end up voting just for the lesser of two evils. I just registered to vote the other day, and this will be my first election that I am old enough to vote in. I had planned on voting for McCain just to avoid Obama, but then I was really upset by his statements about the war taking forever. Recently I've looked at third party candidates, and I'm pretty sure I will be voting for Chuck Baldwin from the Constitution party. I've also become really interested in Ron Paul, and I like how he thinks; really there isn't a whole lot of difference between Obama and McCain. I don't think either of them are going to bring any real change in a positive way. While I think it's good that you've chosen a candidate to vote for, I hate to tell you that your vote is just going to go to waste because it's either going to be Obama and McCain. I wish the green party was more popular and had more air time to give these sorry ass parties a real run for their money, but that's not happening. What we have to do is get more independents in Congress and in the Senate because ain't shit ever going to get done with these two bitch ass parties fighting all the got damn time instead of resolving issues  . Things will get better in Jan. I know because Obama will unite the two parties. I actually see him as more of a reformer than McCain has had his old ass in that damn senate for 26 years and barely made a bent in bipartianship. Obama will be going in as a president who really wants to bring the parties together because he hasn't had all the trouble that's been in the office all these years. He has an advantage that he's been on the outside that's all he has to bring. |
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Post by make.me.over on Sept 27, 2008 23:06:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I realize that the third parties don't have a chance right now. At first I was unsure if I should vote for someone in a third party or not because I know that my vote could take away from McCain (since Balwin is a conservative), and I'm not crazy about Obama. But I think that a lot of people aren't happy with the top two candidates, and maybe if more people voted for someone they really agree with rather than the lesser of two evils, then that would open more doors for other candidates in the future. Cause pretty much right now the media ignores all the candidates except the main two nominees. Really, I feel bad about not voting in the primaries because I hadn't looked into all of the candidates then, but now that I'm more informed, I think I've learned my lesson and I'll vote in primaries in the future. I'm worried about some of the things Obama might do while in office, but I also see a positive side that he will get us out of Iraq quickly, so I just really don't care as much which one of the the two wins.
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Post by gogonutz on Sept 27, 2008 23:45:48 GMT -5
Lisa, you might be right to say that it will come down to McCain & Obama, but it's not true that a vote for someone else doesn't matter. If you don't vote you don't make a statement, if you do vote, you do make a statement. One person isn't enough, 1,000 people aren't enough, but the more that vote, the bigger the statement.
The only way that a third (or more) party will ever get a foot in the door, is when they get equal media attention. And since they are smaller and can't afford or don't have the connections (cause they haven't been a major player since forever, like the Reps & Dems) that's not likely to happen soon.
So the only real thing that you can do, is let your voice be heard. It takes small steps to get somewhere at first, before you can take bigger steps, so every vote for such a party would be an important one. Whereas a vote for one of the two big parties isn't really important, relatively. They can do with one vote more or one vote less. It's not gonna matter in the big picture. For the relatively small parties, 1 vote is a bigger % of their total votes, so it makes more of a difference.
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Post by gurlnlifemagazine on Sept 28, 2008 0:12:51 GMT -5
Lisa, you might be right to say that it will come down to McCain & Obama, but it's not true that a vote for someone else doesn't matter. If you don't vote you don't make a statement, if you do vote, you do make a statement. One person isn't enough, 1,000 people aren't enough, but the more that vote, the bigger the statement. The only way that a third (or more) party will ever get a foot in the door, is when they get equal media attention. And since they are smaller and can't afford or don't have the connections (cause they haven't been a major player since forever, like the Reps & Dems) that's not likely to happen soon. So the only real thing that you can do, is let your voice be heard. It takes small steps to get somewhere at first, before you can take bigger steps, so every vote for such a party would be an important one. Whereas a vote for one of the two big parties isn't really important, relatively. They can do with one vote more or one vote less. It's not gonna matter in the big picture. For the relatively small parties, 1 vote is a bigger % of their total votes, so it makes more of a difference. There's no one in the Green party big enough to make a big enough dent in the voting to matter. I'm not staying she shouldn't vote for a Green Party candidate, but really when people do that they make it harder for the "lesser of two evils" to win because they won't get enough votes. Seriously, we have to decide who we don't want for president as much as we decide who we do want. I understand all too well about lesser of two evils because of the Governor of Illinois. Everybody here thinks he's as piece of shit, but the Republican who ran against him last was even worst. The lesser of the evils was the Green party candidate, but I didn't vote for him because I couldn't risk a bunch of republican's going for their candidate and knocking out the lesser of two evils. So the deal is when you decide to vote for the Green party on such a large scale, in a historic election like this, you risk your "lesser of two evils" losing because he didn't have enough votes. It's really what happened in 2000 to Gore. |
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Post by gogonutz on Sept 28, 2008 0:51:10 GMT -5
maybe the 'lesser of two evils' would lose this time, but you would make a statement for the future. If you continue to accept that you can only vote for the lesser of two evils, because anything else won't matter, it will never change. Change can only happen with small steps.
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Post by gurlnlifemagazine on Sept 28, 2008 11:20:38 GMT -5
Honestly, there will never be a perfect candidate and I think we're being unrealistic if we expect to get a perfect candidate. Even if you vote independent you're just picking the lesser of three evils because nothing will ever be prefect.
That's why I think it should start from the bottom up instead of the the top down. You have to get independents in the Congress and Senate to make a stance so we can see how much better the country will work then. Then we can take it to the White House.
On another note, did any else notice how McCain couldn't Obama right in his eyes. Even when they came out and shook hands he did not look at Obama. What's wrong, McCain? Can't "straight talk and look someone in their eyes at the same time?"
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Post by adhara on Sept 28, 2008 13:06:02 GMT -5
On another note, did any else notice how McCain couldn't Obama right in his eyes. Even when they came out and shook hands he did not look at Obama. What's wrong, McCain? Can't "straight talk and look someone in their eyes at the same time?" I dunno about that. I'm sure he can straight talk (and not so straight talk) while looking someone in their eyes. But I do think McCain has a hard time looking right at the eyes of defeat... and that's what this week was for him. With his suspending the campaign stunt failing, and Palin's ridiculous Couric interview, it was a really tough week for him. Yesterday I read something about the debate that really made me pause. McCain was stumbling pretty badly on Ahmadinejad's name, and Obama quietly acknowledged "That's a tough one." I had to rewatch that clip to see for myself... and the compassion and empathy that Obama has for people is real. It made me feel bad afterwards for cheering every John McCain stumble. I know that I'm a hardcore Obama supporter, so everything I say is going to sound like propaganda, but one of the things I love most about Barack Obama is that he makes me want to become a better person... |
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, like going into stuff about racial politics (i.e. his "blackness" or lack thereof), social class and inequality.
What does she know about the economy, foreign policy, education, health policy? I may not agree on many Republican philosophies and ideals, but I can respect differing policy positions based on fundamental differences in beliefs/worldviews. But I can't respect that she doesn't know anything. Or that she makes up stuff to cover up that she doesn't know anything.
. Things will get better in Jan. I know because Obama will unite the two parties. 
. I'd also like to know if anybody has an HD copy of Lifehouse at Pinkpop 2003. BY far their best concert ever