Dislikes / Songs that have grown

[Robert]

Continuing from the Highways and Low Days thread, we've all pretty much agreed that My Precious is the song we want 'erased forever' as LHfanMI so eloquently said. What else is there? The one that comes to mind for me above anything else is Pins & Needles; I think it's mainly the production that gets me. I've never been a fan of Had Enough either, for similar reasons as well as sort of a general dislike for the melody and harmonies through the entire song. Another one for me is Whatever It Takes; don't get me wrong, I love the song and I've played it a couple hundred times, but when I stop and think about it, lyrically it's not very thoughtful. I get the same feeling with Undone too.

By like token, what are some songs that have grown on people? When S&M came out, I was very resistant to Nerve Damage and HTGT, but over time I've grown to like the latter and looooove the former. I also never used to like The Joke but I've come around on that one and love the piano near the end. One song I used to really dislike was Somebody Else's Song, but again I've come around a lot with that one.

What do y'all think?

[snowfist]

Yup, Somebody Else' Song is one of the songs that I've grown to like. It happened after hearing it a few times of its live rendition over Youtube. Others songs that I've grown to like would be - Better Luck Next Time, Chapter One, The End Has Only Begun, Mesmerized and Slow Motion. I initially didn't really cared for the self-titled album but it has grown to be one of my favourite album of theirs.

On a another note, I really like the sound of tracks like Nobody Listen, Moveonday and Only You're the One but disappointed with its lyrics. Actually, I loved the overall sound of Almeria, it just didn't hit my expectations of good lyrics.

[Robert]

Sept 3, 2017 8:22:20 GMT -5 snowfist said:

Yup, Somebody Else' Song is one of the songs that I've grown to like. It happened after hearing it a few times of its live rendition over Youtube. Others songs that I've grown to like would be - Better Luck Next Time, Chapter One, The End Has Only Begun, Mesmerized and Slow Motion. I initially didn't really cared for the self-titled album but it has grown to be one of my favourite album of theirs.

On a another note, I really like the sound of tracks like Nobody Listen, Moveonday and Only You're the One but disappointed with its lyrics. Actually, I loved the overall sound of Almeria, it just didn't hit my expectations of good lyrics.

Yeah I agree, Almería reminded me of No Name Face in that the sounds are hard to pin on certain instruments, it's less of an instrumentey album and more of a soundscape. Very creative arrangements as well. BLNT is still one I'm not quite as fussy on, but I love the live version from Soundstage (one of J's best vocal performances imo).

[LHfanMI]

You guys are killin me here! SES was definitely one of the first songs to get me hooked on LH!

My Precious is by far me least favorite, Days Go By I can't stand mostly based on ever exposure (2 versions of a mediocre song & they played it live way too much when that album came out), and Mesmerized just sounds forced. It's not bad, but kind of awkward to me.

Slow Motion, Walking Away, Into The Sun, and The End Has Only Begun all took time to grow on me.

[ledvedderman]

I'm still putting together my contribution to this. I swear if I'd put forth this effort in school, I'd be a badass attorney.

[apres13]

The joke... the song makes me angry ate the start 😂😂😂 it's hard for me to listen

[Robert]

New one for this list: Green is Golden. It's taken about two months, but that chorus just got me

[klein]

Dec 9, 2017 16:39:34 GMT -5 Robert said:

New one for this list: Green is Golden. It's taken about two months, but that chorus just got me

Do you mean "Shine Like Gold"?

[Robert]

Dec 11, 2017 12:11:41 GMT -5 klein said:

Dec 9, 2017 16:39:34 GMT -5 Robert said:

New one for this list: Green is Golden. It's taken about two months, but that chorus just got me

Do you mean "Shine Like Gold"?

No, it's the final song on the Winzlo EP (J solo).

[ledvedderman]

Well, 3 months and some change later...I’ll finally post my list here. I’ll go album by album and then hit the b-sides and solo stuff from Jason. I’ll state though that the worst Lifehouse song is an unreleased one, but it’s been played a handful of times...Georgianna. How much do I hate this song? Enough to not know howif I’m spelling it correctly. It’s far too blatant. Some self-titled songs push the boundary of being too blatantly personal to Jason, (Better Luck..., Walking Away) but they work. It doesn’t work with Georgianna.

Alright. To the albums.

No Name Face: Cling and Clatter. I’ve never liked this song. This song keeps NNF from being a perfect album. I don’t know if it’s a bad take in the studio, but this song just doesn’t work. Having said that, I’m not sure if any of the b-sides would serve the album any better, despite Fool and Fairytales being better songs. (Sorry WWWT) Fairytales might be the best fit for this spot on the track list. Fool is by far the best song, but having that on there would be like two HBAM. They’re a little too similar to be on the same record. But Cling and Clatter is better served on DLD and opening the album. Lyrically it’s fine, but there’s no gut punch lyric like every other song on the record has.

Stanley Climbfall: It’s so criminal that this album got discarded early on by the label and by the band. There are some great songs here. I have two songs that just don’t work for me. One is a popular belief here. The other...maybe sacrilegious. My Precious is the first. I will guarantee that songs left off the album are better than My Precious. I know Climb is the easy choice to say, but I’m not sure it fits in with everything on SCF. My Precious is just boring. Musically, there’s not a lot happening here. Just throw on some effect pedals over those boring chords, add in some nonsensical lyrics and you get My Precious. If there was ever a idea that anything experimental could be “experimental by numbers” this would be it. The second song...Wash. Let me explain. When HBAM and NNF were hot on the national scene, soooo much of the conversation about this new band with great potential always came back to “are they Christian rock?” It was clear at the time that Jason didn’t want that tag on him or his music. So when Stanley was announced and Spin released, it looked like he was pulling away from being so overtly spiritual. Obviously there are hints in Spin and Take Me Away, but very open for interpretation. I don’t get that with Wash. Wash could be a FKA song. It’s overly in your face spiritual and it feels forced to appeal to those fans who looked at them as a Christian band. Musically, meh. The octave driven riff is not something you see anymore. The lead guitar is great. Very Brit-Rock. Lyrically though, like I said, it’s too blatant. I can’t relate to them. I know that Anchor (one of my favorites) is a spiritual song, but it’s easy to leave to interpretation. I can’t do that with Wash.

Lifehouse: this album has really grown on me. I was pretty disappointed originally with it following SCF. I heard some really great stuff like Come Back Down, Blind, and even Chapter One. But every yin has a yang. There are some really solid thuds of songs here. Days Go By. It’s really good for what it is, a generic pop rock song designed to sell albums. I don’t hate it as a song. I feel like I ripped it off actually on one of my own songs because it’s so good at being a pop rock song. But if you’re going to put a song on your band’s new record that you have already released as a solo artist, then it better be a single. It feels wasted as just an album track. I honestly don’t know why it was included if it wasn’t going to be a single. Undone. This is just generic. The song is fine but it just doesn’t feel like it fits. The yellow record would have been very interesting as a double EP full album with half of it being the Jason’s Dad Sucks side, and the other being the more straightforward pop rock songs. If we did that, I think it would be more apparent how weak a song Undone is. The fact that it’s sandwiched between two really good songs hurts it, too. Just nothing special going on there.

Alright. That’s all for tonight. Brian is tired. More tomorrow. Be kind.

[Robert]

Dec 13, 2017 0:18:49 GMT -5 ledvedderman said:

Well, 3 months and some change later...I’ll finally post my list here. I’ll go album by album and then hit the b-sides and solo stuff from Jason. I’ll state though that the worst Lifehouse song is an unreleased one, but it’s been played a handful of times...Georgianna. How much do I hate this song? Enough to not know howif I’m spelling it correctly. It’s far too blatant. Some self-titled songs push the boundary of being too blatantly personal to Jason, (Better Luck..., Walking Away) but they work. It doesn’t work with Georgianna.

Alright. To the albums.

No Name Face: Cling and Clatter. I’ve never liked this song. This song keeps NNF from being a perfect album. I don’t know if it’s a bad take in the studio, but this song just doesn’t work. Having said that, I’m not sure if any of the b-sides would serve the album any better, despite Fool and Fairytales being better songs. (Sorry WWWT) Fairytales might be the best fit for this spot on the track list. Fool is by far the best song, but having that on there would be like two HBAM. They’re a little too similar to be on the same record. But Cling and Clatter is better served on DLD and opening the album. Lyrically it’s fine, but there’s no gut punch lyric like every other song on the record has.

Stanley Climbfall: It’s so criminal that this album got discarded early on by the label and by the band. There are some great songs here. I have two songs that just don’t work for me. One is a popular belief here. The other...maybe sacrilegious. My Precious is the first. I will guarantee that songs left off the album are better than My Precious. I know Climb is the easy choice to say, but I’m not sure it fits in with everything on SCF. My Precious is just boring. Musically, there’s not a lot happening here. Just throw on some effect pedals over those boring chords, add in some nonsensical lyrics and you get My Precious. If there was ever a idea that anything experimental could be “experimental by numbers” this would be it. The second song...Wash. Let me explain. When HBAM and NNF were hot on the national scene, soooo much of the conversation about this new band with great potential always came back to “are they Christian rock?” It was clear at the time that Jason didn’t want that tag on him or his music. So when Stanley was announced and Spin released, it looked like he was pulling away from being so overtly spiritual. Obviously there are hints in Spin and Take Me Away, but very open for interpretation. I don’t get that with Wash. Wash could be a FKA song. It’s overly in your face spiritual and it feels forced to appeal to those fans who looked at them as a Christian band. Musically, meh. The octave driven riff is not something you see anymore. The lead guitar is great. Very Brit-Rock. Lyrically though, like I said, it’s too blatant. I can’t relate to them. I know that Anchor (one of my favorites) is a spiritual song, but it’s easy to leave to interpretation. I can’t do that with Wash.

Lifehouse: this album has really grown on me. I was pretty disappointed originally with it following SCF. I heard some really great stuff like Come Back Down, Blind, and even Chapter One. But every yin has a yang. There are some really solid thuds of songs here. Days Go By. It’s really good for what it is, a generic pop rock song designed to sell albums. I don’t hate it as a song. I feel like I ripped it off actually on one of my own songs because it’s so good at being a pop rock song. But if you’re going to put a song on your band’s new record that you have already released as a solo artist, then it better be a single. It feels wasted as just an album track. I honestly don’t know why it was included if it wasn’t going to be a single. Undone. This is just generic. The song is fine but it just doesn’t feel like it fits. The yellow record would have been very interesting as a double EP full album with half of it being the Jason’s Dad Sucks side, and the other being the more straightforward pop rock songs. If we did that, I think it would be more apparent how weak a song Undone is. The fact that it’s sandwiched between two really good songs hurts it, too. Just nothing special going on there.

Alright. That’s all for tonight. Brian is tired. More tomorrow. Be kind.

Good analysis Brian, liking your picks! C&C always felt odd to me as well in No Name Face, and coming after Simon I think something upbeat like Fairytales would work quite nicely. As much as I think Fool is one of the best songs Jason wrote during that era, I have to concede that it wouldn’t fit in that spot, and that the tackling would have to be reshuffled to fit it the way it deserves.

My Precious makes Stanley Climbfall fall flat, I can’t believe how badly it messes up the momentum of the album. I agree with Wash in principle, but it’s so fun to listen to that I can’t imagine the record without it (it feels like a summary of the sound at the time and is such a great live track). How Long and Goodbye should have been added as well, and maybe Climb if it was recorded differently than the live versions were played.

I wholeheartedly agree that yellow album also lost something with Days Go By; I tried replacing it with Chapter Two and it sounded great! Undone is better but still not as good as WKN and musically they’re too close (and the same length lol), so I think Midnight in Philadelphia should have been in its place or somehow added.

Looking forward to hearing what you think of the following four albums

[ledvedderman]

Alright. Here we go with part 2.

Who We Are: This is a tough one. I don’t have the hate for The Joke that a lot of people do. Easier to Be is a little bland, but there are times I really like it. The same goes for Mesmerized and Make Me Over. I feel like those threee songs are too similar to backload the back half of an album. Who We Are is a phenomenal record, but if there is a weak spot, it’s havijg those three similar songs so close to one another. Actually, the weak spot is not ending the album with Signs of Life and going with that flat version of Storm. In Storm is my answer for this record. I love the DLD version of Storm. It’s fantastic. But they really butchered the new version. I like making the piano more prominent, but the vocals only 1/4 of the album was a terrible choice. The full band live versions over the years show how this song should have been recorded. Behind the vocals in the first verse and chorus should be a lead guitar up high on the neck using an e-bow for some mood. Introduce deep piano chord with a finger picked clean electric by Jason. Have Rick come in late with some mallets for a booming sound. Build it and build it. Not in a Flight or Everythijg style, but just have it build. Storm is a song that makes me feel like I’m on a journey, the version on the record should capture that. So, I’m not ripping on Storm as a song. It’s a great song. But the arrangement and recording used for WWA leaves much to be desired. Maybe if they had done a better job with it, maybe it’s easier to not think of Signs of Life as the proper album closer.

Smoke & Mirrors: Hmmmm. Where do I start? All In doesn’t bother me a ton. Yeah it’s recycled, but it never fails to get me excited. Nerve Damage is a solid effort. It feels a tad forced. “Oh look! A guitar solo!” Here’s the thing, if you’re going to make it a point to point out that you’re putting out a song with a solo- it should be a good solo. The solo on Nerve Damage reminds me of a high school player writing his first solo. Not good. Falling In might be my most detested song on this record. It’s absolutely phoned in. I’m amazed that Jason co-wrote it with Rudolph. Two legitimate songwriters team up on this song and all they put forth is a mostly four chord song with insanely basic lyrics?? Come on. You’re better than that. By Your Side is one that I didn’t have any connection to until it came out about that young, sick fan who came to see them in the studio. I appreciate it much more.

Alright. More to come tomorrow. Those were some hard ones to choose from. Oh! I’ll say this about Make Me Over. While I’m not big on the studio version (well, more so many similar songs like it around it on the album) Make Me Over was an awesome opening song for the sets on that tour.

[ledvedderman]

Ok. Here we go with the final two albums.

Almeria: Robert and I were talking a couple of weeks ago about this album. I think we both agreed on two major points. 1) The good songs on this record are really, really good; BUT the bad songs are really, really bad. 2) This is a very good sounding album. It’s very warm sounding. They picked the right album to finally go vinyl on. So, to the bad songs. Nobody Listen is by no means one of my favorite Lifehouse songs, but I respect it for what it is. I think it’s easy to say that Slow Motion is the worst song on this album. I am very well that a song called Slow Motion is likely to be a 4/4 100bpm song to drive to, but this song is PAINFULLY SLOOOOOOOW. There is literally nothing interesting in this song. Not the lyrics. Not the musicianship. Not the vocal delivery. It’s just boring. The second song that is just really dreadful is Moveonday. Here’s why I enjoy it more than Slow Motion and think there’s a good song in here, but they just didn’t tap into it. The riff is pretty original and rocking for this band. The vocal delivery is really solid. I dig the melodies all throughout the song. BUT, the lyrics and the repetiveness (is that a word?) of said lyrics is just awful. This should be a song that just really gets someone going, but I feel like this song is forced down our throats whether we like it or not. It had so much potential but it’s just awful.

OOTW: Honestly, I don’t thknk there are any duds of songs on the record. There are a couple b-sides that I’ll get to tomorrow from thiswlbum. I’m curious to the song selection on some more than anything. The last half of the record is quite folky and is closer to Paper Cuts than anything. That’s not a bad thing. I think if anything has hurt Lifehouse on their records over the years, I think that song selection and production have been it. They usually get the singles right. Wasteland is not too shabby in regard to production. But the song selection and running order just doesn’t feel right here. So, congrats Wasteland...you get a pass here because the songs are all good. Not great, but not awful.

[celticflower]

I really forcefully have to agree on slowmotion..I think it's sexy and at the same time it calms me down. love it. I especially like the guitar in this song. porch song on a lazy sunday afternoon, with a good glass of wine, or iced coffee. I agree on the warm sound of the album. and nobody listen really really grew on me..moveonday still is a bit hmm. for me.

[Robert]

Bit of a hectic week so here's my slightly delayed reply, been thinking about this a lot recently.

On Smoke & Mirrors, I found that nothing about that album was as good as the ones that came before or after it; it was a good, solid record, but lost the spark that made Lifehouse Lifehouse. The base 12 track record was generally uncreative and run-of-the-mill, which is something that Lifehouse could never have been accused of in their earlier years. All In, Had Enough, Falling In, Wrecking Ball, In Your Skin, and the very flat S&M version of Crash and Burn just did nothing for me; they're okay and I've played them a lot, but I feel sad that they're what a lot of people know to be Lifehouse because they're so generic, mainly the first three in that list. The rest of the album had its great and okay tracks, but in general that one was pretty phoned in and they knew it from its release (I remember Jason being asked if it was their favourite record, and he responded saying "well it's definitely our newest record"). Here Tomorrow Gone Today has grown on me musically, because I see a resemblance between it and some of the qualities that define Jason's best writing: a darker, slightly askew tone and lyrics that flip around what one would expect (Wish, Shiny Silver Beast, Goodbye, Clarity... those sorts of songs are, to me, the essence of him as a songwriter). By Your Side was always my favourite when the record was first released, but waned over the years somehow (All That I'm Asking For and Don't Wake Me When It's Over are still the two songs from those sessions that go into the 'best of 2010s' vault for me). One of my biggest issues and disappointments with the album is including From Where You Are; okay, hear me out on this one. It's one of Jason's best songs in my opinion, but in three years they simply added reverb and computerized vocals, and an extra guitar strum at the start of the chorus, and called it a day. What about the extended version that was always played in concert? It was a gem that was added to try and save an otherwise mediocre group of songs. Jason said later that they handed in their 12 songs and Geffen said 'we don't hear a first single' so they went back with Kevin Rudolph and company to write Halfway Gone and All In, the last two songs from those sessions. The first single was kinda dull lyrically (the worst thing Jason had penned up until then imo) but musically was interesting enough, but All In really made everything fall flat to me.

Almería brought back that creativity and spark that was missing from the prior album, and if Lifehouse is defined by the creativity we saw on No Name Face, in a weird way I think it was the most Lifehousey album since NNF. To me, it had two main problems: a few not so good songs, and a general feeling of being unfinished. Gotta Be Tonight has the worst lyrics of any Lifehouse song in history, bar none. It's saving grace is the melody and Jason's voice, despite the autotune, making it fun to listen to if one forgets about the lyrics. Nobody Listen was too computerized in the verses, too sterile to have much emotion, but the chorus and Ricky's drumming really helps it and I don't mind it at all. The live acoustic versions from the time were bizarre though! Moveonday would have been great if Jason had changed the vocals, lyrics, and phrasing; the instrumentation was all there and was killer! Now, hear me out on the next two, because I may ruffle some feathers but from the standard edition, my favourite song is Slow Motion and the one that frustrates me the most is Aftermath. Slow Motion is really slow, but the production, the recording, and mixing are as perfect as perfect gets that it just has this warmth and calming nature that I adore. I think that if BTR was the middle ground of the album, the link between the space and cowboy extremes, then this was the cowboy extreme that the album really needed. I can't imagine that record without it. Aftermath, by contrast, seems unfinished to me, like they ran out of time; the way the instrumentation abruptly cuts at the end after J says 'meet me in the aftermath' and it goes back to just the piano melody, is a studio recording error that stands out like a sore thumb. Once I hear it I can't unhear it. Maybe that's where they cut out the missing line from the fan booklet, post-production? It's bizarre. I think the whole song is great, but it also doesn't fit the album's sound whatsoever. It would be like putting Flight on Stanley Climbfall; it's a great song but it just doesn't fit, at all. I think it's also too short and truncated to conform to Geffen's 'make a four minute pop song' attitude, which is unfortunate. I want to see that song get the Simon treatment and make it long and a bit more rough around the edges, less perfect. From the deluxe, Lady Day sounds like a demo, Pins & Needles sounds like a grating demo (the only song in the Lifehouse catalogue besides My Precious that I skip over), and Rolling Off The Stone is such a grooving tune that it should have been on the standard version to close off the album. Always Somewhere Close is just like Aftermath; great song, but doesn't fit. It may as well have been a Who We Are track!

From OOTW, I agree with Brian that there are no bad tracks, but some songs have grown on me over time. Central Park was my least favourite when I initially hear the record, as I thought it was too slow and stopped the momentum that the record had (like what Brian said that Make Me Over and Mesmerized did for WWA, though as a huge Mesmerized fan it hurts to agree with haha). I really love CP now and like hearing the differences between it and the Paper Cuts version, which has a few extra little countermelodies in the chorus. Bryce's bass on the Lifehouse version is really great though. I still feel like CP doesn't fit on Out of the Wasteland, not if Hurt This Way is on the record as well. Yesterday's Son into Hourglass is one of my favourite moments on any LH record so I think that it should remain, but the last four songs slow the rest of the album down a bit much for me. Maybe Hindsight could have been mixed properly by Chris Lord-Alge and rewritten to remove the computer-looped intro, stripped down and recorded more like Hurricane and included where Hurt This Way is? Maybe they could have added Angeline or Penelopieces? But I'm nitpicking. Otherwise, in my opinion the only part of the album I would change would be to do a little more with Hurricane and take it out of the Geffen-minded three-minute pop song mindset they no longer are forced to conform to. The biggest problem with Out of the Wasteland is that there were too many great songs to choose from, and while they did a pretty good job narrowing it down, there's always a part of my wondering if some other Paper Cuts tracks could have been reworked here and there.

Since we're here, on Paper Cuts, I love the whole thing, and knowing that it's a compilation from slightly different time periods make me forget about the inconsistencies in recording. Satellites is a bit dull, Along the Way sounds recorded on an iPhone and flat, but otherwise it's total perfection to my ears. Highways and Low Days feels like the Smoke & Mirrors of Jason's solo work; some great songs but a bit contrived and less creative than he is capable of. By contrast, Winzlo is like the Almería of his solo work; so out of left field that I'm totally taken by it. Still some missteps (Luminate cough cough, that one will never grow on me) but some really great tracks like Voyage of the Underling and Green is Golden. Santa Monica is hypnotic and reminds me of Slow Motion a bit too, maybe that's why I like it!